Crappy School Frustration
My husband and I currently have our house on the market. We love our neighbors, and our house. We adore our neighborhood. We do not love the local elementary school choice. For starters, their website claims that Skyhaven is “a brain-based theme school.” As opposed to all of those other schools where kids don’t use their brains? Who the hell are the idiots coming up with this stuff?
Skyhaven Elementary School is not making AYP (adequate yearly progress) and I just don’t want to make my kid a guinea pig. Because we live in unincorporated Dekalb, rather than city of Atlanta, we are not eligible for the nearby charter schools. Or at least, we are not eligible as far as i can tell: It is difficult to tell, because the first thing you notice when trying to compare schools, school districts, and even schools in different states is that it seems as if someone doesn’t want you to be able to make a comparison. Hmmm.
So, a neighbor who is facing the same issue sent me a link to the “school choice option” page for the Dekalb county school district. Basically, if your kid is enrolled in a school that has not met AYP for two years in a row, you have an option to send your kid to another school (that is not on the Needs Improvement list) in the district.
An excerpt, from the first paragraph of that website:
“The Purpose of the School Choice Option
The No Child Left Behind (NCLB) Act of 2001 provides students enrolled in a school, identified as Not Achieving Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP) for two consecutive years in the same subject area, the option to transfer to another public school in the local school district that has not been identified as Needs Improvement are given the option to transfer to another public school in the district.”
So, let me get this straight. First of all, I am expected to leave my child’s education in the hands of people who write sentences like the one above? That just doesn’t seem like a good idea to me. If someone can’t proofread their work before posting it on a website for public consumption, how can I be expected to comfortably hand my children over to that person to educate them in the ways of writing?
And then there’s this little gem:
“How Students Are Selected
All NCLB Choice applications are prioritized by:
* 1st: Low Income
* 2nd: Achievement / Performance Level”
So, because I might make more money than other people in my district, my child doesn’t get the same shot at an opening in a better school. This is not just illogical, but it is the antithesis of what children should be taught. This, in essence, says: You will actually receive benefits just for being less rich than other people. Achievement itself means less than how “needy” you are. You do not have to try. In fact, if your parents don’t try to succeed, they will have an increased chance of a better education for you than their more successful neighbors will for their children.
Grrrr. I am guessing that this bullshit is meant to “level the playing field,” but playing fields aren’t necessarily meant to be level. What is wrong with the beauty and majesty of people excelling in what they undertake? Why are we rewarding mediocrity and punishing excellence?
Either way, it doesn’t matter, because all this accomplishes is the running out of families like my own, who would love to be a part of and make a contribution to a diverse community, but not at the expense of their children’s education, and not at the ultimate price that might be exacted: I never want my son or daughter to think that it is alright to give something less than their absolute best shot. I don’t want my children to be punished for their successes and accomplishments, or for my own.
I don’t think our schools are ever going to improve if we don’t start rewarding teachers and administrators financially, so as to compete with the salaries of those successful in the world of business, and if we don’t stop thinking that we will improve people’s lives by putting the mediocre before the successful.
What’s really sad is that this perpetuates the problem of the crappy school districts. If you punish the successful, why would the successful want to live in your area and help you improve your schools?
This just seems . . . elementary. Pardon the pun. They do still teach kids what a pun is, right?
Yes, I know that a large part of this is the result of the federally-mandated No Child Left Behind initiative, but it affects everyone at the local level, and Atlanta is no different than Omaha, or Seattle, or Louisville. I live in Atlanta, and I am pretty pissed about the state of our schools. I cannot be the only one walking the housing cost vs. school district tightrope; Why else would all these sorry people be sitting in their cars for hour-plus commutes?
“I don’t think our schools are ever going to improve if we don’t start rewarding teachers and administrators financially, so as to compete with the salaries of those successful in the world of business, and if we don’t stop thinking that we will improve people’s lives by putting the mediocre before the successful.”
AMEN!!! My mom is a special ed teacher (at Shamrock Middle, actually, which has made AYP, so people from non-AYP schools are coming over in droves) and NCLB has forced her to take some sort of stupid test to prove that she’s highly accredited (or something like that). It has also given her pressure to make her kids, who are in 6th grade but tend to read 2 to 3 grades lower, pass the CRCT because if special ed kids fail, the entire school doesn’t make AYP. I also don’t think teachers make enough money, which is why so many young ones leave within the first five years–so they can afford to live!
“Grrrr. I am guessing that this bullshit is meant to “level the playing field,” but playing fields aren’t necessarily meant to be level. What is wrong with the beauty and majesty of people excelling in what they undertake? Why are we rewarding mediocrity and punishing excellence?”
Guess it never occurred to you that there might be excellent poor people.
D. Ortiz… The problem is that the priority for students should be:
* 1st: Achievement / Performance Level”
* 2nd: Low Income
Yes, there may be excellent poor people and they would fulfill those requirements in that order.
Emma – Glad you agree. I feel like my criticism of our education system is sometimes taken as a criticism of those stuck in the system, or those who are really, truly trying to help people. Sadly, I have four friends who went into teaching and left because the money did not make it worth it to them to deal with the absent parents, the English-as-a-second language problem, and the administration that, when the issues arose, would never go to the mat for the teachers. Not to mention the death threats, and even one friend who was assaulted by an angry parent.
Kudos to your Mom for doing her job.
D – I would totally love to refute your statement, but there is no way I could have said it better than Adam. He grasped my point perfectly. Thanks, Adam!
I have more of a question for you all. My wife and I are about to have a girl in a few months. And I worry about her education, but I wonder how much I will play in her learning. Should I be a parent that is there to pick up the slack and help my child with her studies. My parents were there for me, helping me with Math and Science and English when I had questions. I was lucky to have a great education, but I also went to Catholic schools. I feel that I should be there to help out with my child’s education and not just rely on the public school system to do it. I may be niave and be living in a dream world where I think I’ll have time to do this before or after my work. What do you parents feel?
You own a house and you are able to sell it and move- that is the reason for granting first priority to children from families with less money. Your kids will likely have their education supplemented in a way that the poor kids will not- their education begins and ends at school, so having a school that isn’t failing is paramount for them. I think it makes sense, at least.
Kortez, yes you have to be there for your kids. Do that, and they will turn out fine.
Matt – Actually, selling our house has proven less simple than one might think. It does require a buyer to sell a house. :-)
If someone doesn’t own a house, then they are more able to pick up and move into a rental in a different district than i am, so I don’t really buy that argument. There are apartments in decent school districts.
You are right – my children’s education will be supplement with my attention at home, but that attention does not require money, it requires dedication and time.
Finally, “having a school that isn’t failing is paramount for them?” How about the fact that having non-failing schools is paramount for all of our children?
The thing that you don’t seem to get is that kids whose education begins and ends at school are going to struggle even if they go to the best schools. A school cannot make up for absent or crappy parenting, and we need to start realizing that. Our throwing money at education is like putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound.
And one other thing, Matt: The kids whose education begins and ends at school unfortunately won’t even get to take advantage of the school choice option, because if their parents aren’t going to go to the trouble of educating them at home, they sure as hell aren’t going to go to the trouble of putting in for a transfer. If they cared, the kids wouldn’t be in educational crisis in the first place.
My wife and I recently purchased a house in Grant Park, we intend to have children, so this issue is dear to our heart.
Let me begin by saying that the problem you identify is part of a vicious cycle that is created by tying school funding to property taxes.
I believe in the market. I also believe that the fundamental component to a good education is good teachers. Ultimately, the success of a school system hinges on its ability to attract good teachers.
Schools today face a huge problem competing for good teachers today verses 30 years ago. At previous points in our country’s history, the best career track for an intelligent career minded woman who was a good writer might have been English teacher. Today, she becomes a tech writer.
All other things being equal, it’s more expensive to get the same quality teachers than it might have been years ago, because teaching must compete economically with other career paths.
But all other things are not equal. Schools are largely funded by property taxes. An area that has a larger percentage of poor people can’t compete for teachers on a salary basis as well as an area a richer tax base. Educated people become dissatisfied with the schools, and move to the suburbs, at which point the tax base drops, and the vicious cycle begins.
The reason I support the increased sales tax Annie wrote about earlier is that it is attempting to break that cycle. Will all of the money be invested wisely? Probably not, but it is certainly a step in the right direction.
Another problem is not just the loss of Annie’s tax dollars, it is the loss of Annie. Involved parents are a recipe for a school making its AYP. I would suggest that there should be some sort of economic incentive for families like Annie’s to stay in underperforming districts.
At the end of the day, one of the reasons we chose Grant Park is that Parkside Elementary shows promise, not to mention the off chance that our kid(s) would be able to get into the charter school. We hope that by the time our kid(s) is in Middle School, things will have improved at King.
This is a tough situation, and I would suggest that it’s exacerbated by the anti-Atlanta forces in this state, but there’s reason to be optimistic. Still it’s a lot easier to be optimistic when you’re caring for theoretical children rather than actual ones.
I don’t have a problem with income being a primary consideration since it’s statistically more probable that a low income student is coming from a really crappy school. Since they don’t seem to take the achievement scores of the kid’s current school into consideration – lord knows why not, this seems like as good a method as any (yet obviously still imperfect) to help students at the disproportionately bad schools. Without knowing exactly how this stuff is weighted I think it’s a bit premature to scream victim.
Also, my education essentially began and ended in school as my parents didn’t add a whole lot outside of reasonably correct English and pressure to do well, they worked their asses off during the day and at night. I never had a lot of extra learning tools and basically played with my friends when I wasn’t in school. I’ll caveat this by saying that I was considered gifted (whatever in the hell that means), but for 95% of the time I had the same teachers as everybody else, in the same classrooms, in the same 49th-ranked public educational system.
It’s always what you make of it.
What about private school or home schooling? Many families sacrifice “things” so a parent can stay at home or kids can go to a private school. It’s not cheap, but if many families cut the fat, or even downsize it is possible.
Man, that David Ortiz is one surly dude.
If you really cared about your kids, you’d reduce your earnings so that you’d qualify for all those goodies poor people get. It sure sucks being well off in America, don’t it?
P.S. Andruw Jones is an overpaid slacker.
Jim, I have to say that I agree with much of what you said, and that you wrote some of the best comments I have seen written in a while. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this, as a person whose argument is not at all clouded by fear for their own children. And I AM fearful for my children’s educational opportunities.
Concerning the sales tax that Jim mentioned, my problem with that sales tax, more than anything, was that the money is not going towards teachers, it is going towards facilities.
I also disagree that the fundamental component of a good education is good teachers. I feel that the fundamental component of a good education is good PARENTS. Good parents instill in their children a love for learning and an understanding of the importance of a good education that will transcend any educational obstacles that stand in a child’s way. I honestly think that all the money and excellent teachers in the world will not be able to overcome a parent’s negative or absent influence.
Concerning the “economic incentive” to keep my kids in an underperforming school: My kids are not for sale, nor are their educations. I know you mean well with this statement, but I am not asking to receive payment for keeping my children here, I am just asking for my children to be treated equally and fairly when compared with those from any other income level.
Rashid – I have to take exception at the “scream victim” bit. My children are not even close to being victims, and because of my parenting diligence, I doubt they ever will be. It is my questioning of things like the prioritization of transfers that will keep them from ever being a victim. If anyone is “screaming victim” here, it is the people who feel their kids should be moved to the head of the line because they make less money.
I don’t think should children should be judged based on statistical probabilities, but on their individual achievement.
If your parents expected you to do well in school, they gave you a great gift. You don’t need fancy study aids. All you need is a library card and some expectation. Sounds like your parents did a pretty good job.
I definitely agree that it is what you make of it. Exceptional students graduate from less than exceptional schools. But more exceptional students graduate from better schools than less than exceptional schools. I am scared to take a chance with my kids, and I will do whatever I can to give them the best chances i can.
Dave – I don’t think homeschooling or private schools are out of the question, but when one is already paying into the public education system, one kind of wants that to work out. If I have to pay for private school, or homeschooling curriculum, then I am still paying for public school at the same time. I would be in complete support for a voucher system, but that will never happen, I am afraid.
“I don’t think homeschooling or private schools are out of the question, but when one is already paying into the public education system, one kind of wants that to work out. If I have to pay for private school, or homeschooling curriculum, then I am still paying for public school at the same time.”
People *without* kids pay for the public school system as well. Should they simply be allowed to opt out?
Someone brought that question up on the thread about the school tax. Yes, my answer is that I truly don’t think people have a responsibility to pay for educating other people’s children.
“Concerning the ‘economic incentive’ to keep my kids in an underperforming school: My kids are not for sale, nor are their educations. I know you mean well with this statement, but I am not asking to receive payment for keeping my children here, I am just asking for my children to be treated equally and fairly when compared with those from any other income level.”
Taking advantage of an economic incentive to send one’s children to a particular school isn’t equivalent to selling one’s children. My guess is that if a parent were to devote an hour a day studying with their child and be involved with the school, that would certainly overcome even the worst deficit. Offering an incentive would be a way of compensating people for the additional effort required to get their children a good education at a sub-par school.
Safety is another matter, and I agree, that if you don’t feel your kids are safe in a particular school, then no amount of economic incentive is going to justify that.
“I truly don’t think people have a responsibility to pay for educating other people’s children.”
While you may not share my sense of responsibility in this matter, I’d suggest that there’s a practical reason for you to do so. Educated children grow up to be productive members of society. Uneducated children grow up to be drains on society. The nickels we spend on educating other’s children tend to come back dressed as dollars down the road.
It’s frustrating to live in DeKalb, isn’t it? I’m a former PTA president and local school council member and I ended up writing a novel entitled “CHAIN GANG ELEMENTARY” about a group of parents who challenge the status quo. Look for it this summer.
1. Brain Based Learning is an education model that is used in many schools. That particular school didn’t design it; BBL was created by Leslie Hart, and it’s focus is to begin with understanding how the brain works and how we learn. (http://www.brainconnection.com/topics/?main=fa/brain-based). So Leslie Hart is “who the idiot is that comes up with this stuff”.
2. The “No President Left Behind” nightmare is almost over. 90% of educators don’t like this program, and once again your school did not come up with it. They had it thrown at them and were told they had to live by it. Complaints should be lodged with: The White House.
3. School choice selection criteria would be used in the event that the number of applicants reaches a certain limit. Then they would choose the applicants based on certain aspects. BY THE WAY – your comment about economic status/income level and leveling the playing field:
“Why are we rewarding mediocrity and punishing excellence?” You are equating higher income levels with student excellence???
I never really saw a complaint about the actual school in your posting. Is it the principal? your child’s teacher? The building? The cafeteria? I can predict that the teachers there work like dogs, as they do at any school…and being a teacher myself I can tell you that salaries are not the problem. Starting salary for a first year teacher is over $40,000 and increases a good bit every year. It’s not luxury, but it’s decent.
I think you should re-assess your school situation with a more open mind and with less anger. Parents can make the biggest difference in their childrens’ education…and no, elementary students don’t learn about puns as far as I know…
“Yes, my answer is that I truly don’t think people have a responsibility to pay for educating other people’s children.”
Annie,
Not only is that selfish, but completely irresponsible. Ahh yes, what does America need? More uneducated people. Brilliant.
Jim is exactly right. Unless you want to spend your money building more prisons in the future, you need to invest in education now.
Jesus Christ, who let that malcontented David Ortiz out of Boston? Man, that guy is angry.
Jim, agreed that kids, if given the proper attention, can make something great of a less than stellar school. That being said, the number one issue for me IS safety, as you mentioned. And for anyone who has spent a New Year’s Eve night in my neighborhood (or anyone who roofs houses in my neighborhood) can attest, there are a huge number of recklessly-used weapons present in homes here. The reality is that I am frightened for my kids’ safety in most of the schools in my area.
Concerning the responsibility to educate society, I agree that a good education helps keep kids out of trouble, and that is a good thing for society. My problem is that I don’t think the schools are giving the kids a good education, and that all the money in the world is not going to change that. What kids need to get a good education is good parenting. Just my opinion.
J Grant – I would love to hear more about your. Let us know when the book comes out. What schools do you have experience with in Dekalb Co? I know you wouldn’t want to give your whole book away, but I would like to hear your comments about the post and those of the commenters.
Joe.
1. Interesting about the Brain-based learning program. I had not heard that, and didn’t see anything about that on their website. Seems like it would be educational to the public and parents researching their local schools if things like curriculum and educational models were explained to prospective parents, rather than thrown around as buzzwords. Maybe I should have said, “Who the hell is the idiot who designed this website?”
2. Concerning NCLB – I think I acknowledged that this was a problem at the Federal level, not with the individual schools. I will not argue with you on this one, because i think we are on the same page.
3. Not sure if I get your point about school choice selection, but I think it speaks volumes about the problem we have if not all of the children at a failing school have parents trying to move them to a more successful school.
Are you saying that this is not an issue, because the school choice slots are never all filled?
4. “You are equating higher income levels with student excellence???” No, I am not. I am saying that not judging children on their own individual merits, rather than on the paychecks of their parents, is unfair. I am questioning why children of all socio-economic levels are not being considered equally.
5. The school in question: My child is only 3.5 years old, so he hasn’t started school yet. My main problem with the school is safety. After that, my problem with it is that it is a failing school, based on statistics i have studied, and compared with other schools in the district. I am not questioning the dedication of the teachers. This is not a criticism of educators. It is a criticism of the public school system as a whole.
6. I find it interesting that you don’t have a problem with the salaries of educators. I have never met a teacher that admitted that they are paid fairly for the (ridiculously difficult, in my opinion) job they perform.
7. I totally agree that parents make the biggest difference in a child’s education. I would venture to say that they make, with very few exceptions, the only difference, and that children with parents who don’t value education will most likely end up not valuing education themselves. I am attempting to make a difference in my child’s education. Part of that is educating myself on my options, and fighting to see that the children receive the best education I can give them.
8. You are right about one thing. I am angry. I am angry that I pay taxes every year into a failing system, one that people who claim to be so open-minded themselves REFUSE TO ADMIT IS FAILING. I am angry that people have children that they expect someone else to educate. I am angry that I am charged for a service that is not being delivered, and that I cannot fire the people who are supposed to be delivering that service, but who are not doing so. I am angry that intelligent, hard-working teachers give up the profession out of frustration with the system. I am angry that dangerous kids are allowed to remain in the system to the detriment of kids who actually want to learn. Most of all, I’m angry that kids are getting short-changed by the refusal of the adults around them to make the necessary changes to fix the system.
Gosh, I feel much better now.
p.s. You sound like you are a good teacher.
Audacity: Once again, i will say that I support education. In fact, I don’t know many people, even those who agree with me that it is not their responsibility to pay for the education of other people’s children, who would really mind investing in an educational system that was working. I have a problem in investing my money into a system that is failing the kids. Questioning spending on a failing system, in my opinion, is the responsible thing to do.
Concerning my selfishness, well yes – If caring more about my child’s education than about the education of my next door neighbor’s child is selfish, then yes, I am selfish. It also means I am a responsible parent. I am guessing you either don’t have kids, or you are not willing to admit that you care more about your own child than someone else’s. For a parent, it is an innate reaction to protect your own offspring before someone else’s. I won’t apologize for trying to do right by my kids – if more people did the same thing, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.